Re: gEDA: Trolltech introduce dual licensing for windows with qt4.

[sdb-at-NOSPAMcloud9_dot_net (Stuart Brorson)]

> > Suppose you are a clueless newbie.  All you want to do is design a
> > board.  You've never heard of apt-get, nor of yum.  You don't know
> > what Qt is, nor do you know what GTK is.  You *are* smart, and have
> > some basic inking about how to use unix, and have managed to install
> > FC using the installer.  HOwever, that's as much Linux hacking as you
> > really want to do.  
> 
> sure. so expecting the distribution to have an installer that can do 
> dependencies,

Maybe you should pay more attention.  The entire gEDA can *already* be
downloaded as a .iso with a bundled installer, which handles a  number
of the dependencies.  The target for this is the clueless noob who
just wants to design, and doesn't want to play around with apt-get,
emerge, yum, or pkgsrc.

Meanwhile, the experienced user is welcome to use any build tool he
wants, including apt-get.  The newbie is too, but he may prefer
something easy, like a GUI installer on a CD.

> expecting the user to be able to do the graphical click equivilant of 
> typing apt-get install geda

From a UI perspective, a graphical installer offers additional
assurance to the noob that everything is going well in the install.
Also, the install wizard is bundled on the CD, so the noob already has
it when he downloads the CD.  

Also, the original discussion involved installing prereq packages,
like Qt.  As far as I am concerned, if the newbie needs to download
apt-get so he can download Qt so he can download PCB and build it, he
will just go elsewhere.  Your hacker mindset -- "just use apt-get" --
drives newbies away. 

> and hoping the geda developers have made such a good package that
>   the  distribution package porters can suoort the above
> 
> is a good way to achieve this?    and then keep it current.

It's already done. 

> Do yourself a favour and play with apt. Debian made a really good tool, 
> many other distributions have noticed and port/support it.

I don't think you get the big picture.  The point is not which CLI
tools is best for a developer to install software.  The question is:
how should we developers design a suite so that it installs easily for
the newbie.  One way -- which currently exists -- is a .iso
distribution with a bundled GUI installer.  I believe it makes sense
for the following reasons:

*  CD distribution with bundled installer is identical to what folks
are used to in the Windows world.  People are used to it & comfortable
with the concept.

*  CD distribution with bundled installer already has everything on it
to perform install.  You don't need to find and build apt-get first.

*  CD distribution with GUI installer provides the clueless newbie
with the warm and fuzzies that his build is going well.  Apt-get and
other CLI tools just provide inscrutable text spew which makes sense
only to developers.

*  It already exists anyway.  Go look at the gEDA downloads page.

Anyway, I am glad you think apt-get solves all problems.  Are you
therefore volunteering to provide gEDA packages which build with
apt-get?   

Stuart